So You Want To Date My Daughter?
Great post here from Jared Wilson:
1. You must love Jesus. I don’t care if you’re a “good Christian boy.” I was one of those too. So I know the tricks. I’m going to ask you specific, heart-testing questions about your spiritual affections, your daily devotional life, your idols, your disciplines, and the like. I’ll cut you a little bit of slack because you’re young and hormonal and your pre-frontal lobe isn’t fully developed yet, but I’ll be watching you like a hawk. I know you. I was you. You will think you can fool me, and you likely have fooled many other dads who didn’t pay much attention to their daughters’ suitors, but I will be on you like Bourne on that guy whose neck he broke. Which guy was that? Every guy. So love Jesus more than my daughter or go home.
2. You will install X3Watch or Covenant Eyes on your computer and mobile devices and have your regular reports sent to me.
3. I will talk to your dad and tell him I will hold him responsible if you don’t treat my daughter like a lady. If he thinks I’m a crazy person, you fail the test and won’t get to date her. If he understands what I’m saying, that bodes well for you.
4. You will pay for everything. Oh, sure, every now and then my daughter can buy you a Coke or something and a gift on your birthday and at Christmas. But you pay for meals, movies, outings, whatever else. Don’t have a job? I’m sorry, why I am talking to you again?
5. You will accept my Facebook friend request.
6. If it looks like you need a belt to hold your pants up, I will assume you don’t have a job. See #4.
7. Young people dating are putting their best face forward, so if you appear impatient, ill-tempered, or ill-mannered, I know you will gradually become more so over time. I will have no jerks dating my daughters.
8. If I am not your pastor, I will talk to the man who is. If your pastor is a woman, why I am talking to you, again?
9. You don’t love my daughter. You have no idea what love is. You like her and you mightlove her someday. That’s an okay start with me, so put the seatbelt on the mushy gushy stuff. Don’t profess your undying love, quote stupid love song lyrics to her, tell her you’d die for her, or feed her any other boneheaded lines that are way out of your depth as a horny little idiot. A lady’s heart is a fragile thing. If you play with hers, I will show you yours.
10. If you ever find yourself alone with my daughter, don’t panic. Just correct the situation immediately. If I ever catch you trying to get alone with my daughter, that would be the time to panic.
11. It may sound like I’m joking in threatening you harm, and while I might not physically hurt you if you offend my daughter or violate her honor, when I am addressing the issue with you, you will not be laughing.
12. You may think all this sounds very legalistic. That’s fine. You can be one of the many antinomians not dating my daughter.
HT: The Thinklings
AMEN!!!!!
I am printing this out for my husband! He wants to give copies to all the boys who will try to date our daughters one day!
“If your pastor is a woman, why I am talking to you, again?”
Really?
I was totally with you as a daughter until I got here. Even if you don’t agree with women in ministry, was this really necessary in a blog on dating? You really wouldn’t let your daughter date a guy who otherwise fit all the rest of your criteria simply because his family faithfully attends a church led by a woman?
Jen, thanks for stopping by. First of all, if you’ll notice this post was from Jared Wilson, not me. I don’t have daughters. I was posting for those who do.
Second, however, I do agree with Wilson on this point. I believe that Scripture is clear on the fact that only men should be elders (i.e. pastors). 1 Timothy 2:12-3:7 is clear on this point. I am aware of the arguments in opposition to my position but I find them unconvincing.
A man, or boy in this case, who places himself under the authority of a woman who is the main preaching and teaching pastor of a church is in violation of this passage. Furthermore as a Southern Baptist, this is our doctrinal position as well. To allow my daughter, if I had one, to pursue a relationship under these circumstances would cause me to violate the theological convictions of which was part of my ordination and commission as a pastor.
Hope this clarifies a bit.
Thanks
GB
“If I am not your pastor, I will talk to the man who is. If your pastor is a woman, why I am talking to you, again?”
I do not appreciate this comment. I am a child of a female pastor who raised three kids on her own whom have all accepted Christ into their lives and live by His will. Having a female as a pastor is no reflection in ones character. The only reflection that counts is our reflection in Christ alone. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”. (Gal 3:28)
Wow… I really hope this kind of ignorance dies out over the next few generations. If you are really going to take that passage literally, I assume you are against any female teachers in co-ed classes. It is amazing how prejudicial and bigoted people can be under the auspice of following such an incredible Savior.
Well put GB. I am also agree with the statements made by Jared.
W.L. God’s word is the same yesterday, today and forever. It does not channge just because we as a society has changed.
SA
Amen, CT
CT, thanks for being honest about your position. I do want to be clear that I am not calling into question the character of any woman who happens to be a pastor. I have a deep respect for anyone who leads the people of God. I know the burdens they bear and problems they confront. I am grateful that you had a mother who walked/s with God and modeled the Christian life for you. The fruit of that is apparent.
This issue here is not a character/salvation/equality issue. Nor does the issue involve the text from Galatians 3. Paul, who wrote Galatians, also wrote 1Timothy where he was very clear that elders are to be men and not women (1Tim 2:12-3:7). Notice that he did not pull the “Christ is all” card here. He specifically outlined the roles men and women are to have in the church. The role of ruling/teaching elder is reserved for men. How do you understand this text?
Again, I am grateful for the women who serve God diligently in this role, however I cannot agree with their position on this issue. Since that is my conviction, I will raise my sons (I don’t have daughters remember, I just posted Jared Wilson’s post) in this manner and hold this standard before them.
GB
WL, I am not certain how a theological conviction that seeks to do justice to the biblical text (namely 1Tim 2:12-3:7) is ignorance. I’d be glad to point you to some resources that wrestle with these issues if you’d like.
As for taking that passage literally, how else would I take it?
As for co-ed teaching, that is another topic. I have no problem with this if other qualifications are met. The issue is the office of elder.
GB
Love this!
Although I also thought So You Want To Date My Daughter was witty, bold, and timely, I thought it was very humanistic. Don’t get me wrong, I would love for all those criteria to be met, but to be honest, I really don’t think the dads out there are going to have much of a say in who their daughter dates. When they are young, early to mid teens maybe, but beyond that, get real. While we want the best for our daughters and know how important it is for them to be with a strong Christian man, that is what we want and not necessarily what god wants. Yes, I know that god ultimately wants and even commands us to be strong Christian men, but god also knows that it doesn’t happen overnight. We all know of cases where god uses strong Christian women to raise up strong Christian men, and it’s not always mother to son. It takes time to mold a man, and most young men aren’t even close (not meeting the criteria). Does that mean I should stand in god’s way and not allow my daughter or myself for that matter help to build a young man.
When I finished reading it, I thought about my own life and how I hardly met any of those criteria when I first started dating my wife. If my father in-law (a strong Southern Baptist man) had been that close-minded, I don’t know where I’d be today. My wife was drawn to me because god allowed her to see something in me that I couldn’t see (his plan). I know that god is using her and my kids and her family to get to me! I am growing in Christ because it was his will for us to be together regardless of what my father in-law may or may not have wanted for his daughter. And although the bible says that the men should be the strong Christian leaders in the family, I truly believe that God’s purpose for my wife is to help me lead our family until I am mature enough in the Christian faith to fully takeover that responsibility. At the ripe old age of 34, I am still being molded.
The more important focus should be raising our children (daughters and sons) to expect those things of anyone wanting to date them; otherwise you risk some serious rebellion if you try to enforce this. Having a readymade Christian like the author seems to be looking for sounds to easy to truly be gods plan for the children that we’ve raised up in Christ. We all know it’s rarely that easy when it comes to god’s plan and purpose. Instead of having a lofty list of criteria that a young man must meet, try praying for this young man and gods plan for him. Get involved in this young man’s life and let god use you to help mold him. Although we may not want to think of it this way, this is yet another way god brings people into our lives so that we can point them to the cross.
So my daughter sent this to both my husband and I – she loved it! Evidently this is the way she wants her courtship to be handled and my husband will gladly oblige! We have brought her up to not date – but to wait on the man God sends her – courtship. She has liked one boy in high school but soon broke off the friendship/almost relationship when God told her he was not the one for her. We feel like that the relationship between husband and wife is sacred and what you share with the opposite sex before the marriage cannot not be regained on the wedding day. So the first kiss is a sacred thing to save for your future husband. Thank you for sharing this – while it was funny – it really made a parent think.
I understand many of the above concerns, but the writer of this blog seems to be trying to inspect the fruit of the young man’s character using “letter of the law” criteria. Is there any room for grace? No doubt many of these outward things (how he dresses, whether he has a job at the moment, etc., whether he attends a church with a female pastor) could point to deeper signs in his life of maturity, but not necessarily. What if he is a teenage boy attending that church because he is under the authority of his parents, and that is where they want their children to attend? What if his parents have instilled a good work ethic in him, but have encouraged him to not work right now, but to be involved in voluntary spiritual sacrifice and ministry or to focus on his studies (with the same sort of work ethic) in order that later he can provide for his wife and family? I am also expecting that this man is writing about a teenage daughter or maybe university student. There comes a point when a father tries to look at the heart of the young man, not only looking at outward signs. The wording of this blog makes it sound like the author is focusing on character development that comes from laying down laws in a young mans life or laying down laws in dating situations (never be alone, she will never pay). Okay, there are principles, character issues, and then there are laws. Looking for principles and character in the young man are best and not focusing on “laws” that you have decided are tell tale signs of maturity seems the best way to go. If the young man loves Christ and is open and honest with the young woman’s father, has a heart to grow, then there’s a degree of mercy and grace that the father should show. Afterall, he should be trying to view the young man the way a spiritual father would, seeking to disciple him too. This isn’t all about protecting a daughter, irregardless of how precious. He is a young man, seeking Christ, then he will be moldable and respect your decisions. He may not be exactly where you want him to be when he first meets with you, but look at his heart not his clothes and then minister to the young man. Spend a few weeks/months discipling him first in love if you have concerns, rather than just laying down laws.